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Thread: 2nd Run Figures?

  1. #21
    What do the announced production numbers have to do with anything? Re-releasing these figures would in no way decrease the value of the originals. The prices on ebay seem to be stabilizing as it is. I don't think that we will ever see the 2011 set go for over $1500 at this point. This is the same argument used by scalper who feel burned if someone else gets something they thought was theirs alone.

  2. #22
    Private First Class sheila4420@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    By far one of the best ideas I've read. There were so many figures I couldn't get and trying to buy them now is next to impossible. I'd definitely get a ton of figures this way. Oktober Guard is at the top of the list.

  3. #23
    The longer I look at this issue, the more (and it pains me as I am still looking for a few figures for my niece and nephew) I side against re-issuing the hard to find figures and more in favor or releasing a different/altered version.

    Some people (not me, mine are toys) buy them as a long term investment, scalpers and resellers buy as a short term investment (scalpers a price gouging opportunity). Resellers sell to those that do not have an opportunity to buy them direct. Scalpers try to create an artificial market (i.e. take advantage of non non Club Members or can't find them at retail -ie they buy the full shelf before anyone else even sees them out). I don't care about the parasite scalpers, but those buying as an investment or even reselling, the Club figures limited production runs are what makes them maintain their value. As I have told people, their MOC foil packed whatever is still going to be worth $10 in twenty years, because there will still be a ton out there of new old stock. Mainly, because collector's gobbled them up and put them away thinking they will be like the 80's toys we remember in value. However, just like comics and sports cards when a large number of people protect unopened boxes and put them away, they will not increase in value. There are too many still available in great shape. The reason the 80's carded figures go for so much is most were opened, they were played with, parts were lost, parts were broken. Operation Bear Trap (both runs) is now stabilized at around $900 per set. Double the price give or take of buying it as a Homefront Heroes set. However, consider this- what would that price be right now for those if there wasn't a second run with slightly altered colors? The Mission Brazil has settled to an average of around $1,200 for a much more limited run, an argument could be made that by reprinting the Operation Bear Trap, the Club devalued the initial buyers investment by 25%.

    Afterall, It is not the scalpers selling at these prices right now, it is market forces from investment holders, and collectors. These were the buy and hold people that saw a limited number, "invested" and now are being rewarded for a shrewd investment. If people can get these figures reproduced now, then yes it will devalue those original figures and their investment. In a free market, with risk comes reward, and true supply and demand dictate what the market will bare. This isn't like the TRU figures which were mass produced and in abundance suffering from poor distribution and artificial shortages with scalpers taking advantage and flipping the three packs early on for 3 or 4 times retail to those willing to pay because they "couldn't find them" and wanted them now. We are talking about figures that have been available in most cases for over 5 yrs, that were limited and people for whatever reasons at the time couldn't afford them, did not know the club existed, or thought they were to high back then that now regret the decision to pass. People want to be rewarded because they did not take the risk and in some extent that is wrong. That is like asking the Club, a small collector oriented business to do what Hasbro did and with Alpine. It certainly effected the price, and some of those people that bought him for $100 for their collection (yes they were scalped, but he was a more limited run) were pissed that they now can buy him for $25 or the re-release for $8. After all the people paying the $100 are not scalpers flipping, but collector's buying to have for their own collections. They want that investment to at least hold its own, and re-releases water down the market. Which in turns pushes collector's to alternative "collectibles" and investments. If a re-release is somehow markedly different (other than packaging and a gold emblem- Alpine) like the multiple Dial Tone's the club has released it holds value. Comic, Sunbow accurate, new head sculpt, new build (Darklon- although he declined a little) and value for the most part will be held. Or it the investment world, it is like asking Apple or Microsoft to reissue its stock at 1980 pricing because you didn't buy it back then, but you want it now but don't want to pay the market price per share.

    Now, the Club could have done some things differently as well. Such as increasing the production numbers (whether they actually produced and released them or not). Then selling them if they choose at double the initial offering in periodic releases (but you will still have to be quicker than the scalpers) in a second preorder period only to be produced when the costs for the run are fulfilled, offering all member the opportunity for exclusives (at a higher price) from the Cons when signing up sight unseen. Again risk/reward either all in (at a slightly higher retail price) or you have regrets and Cherry Pick, you can't spoil the surprise of the reveals at the Con (effect attendance, enthusiasm, the specialness) by letting people get a look ahead of time to see if they want them or not. Your special homefront offer is "All In unseen" or Secondary market to cherry pick. Too many people want their cake and to eat it also. Everyone wants to fill their collections, everyone wants to get a deal, but in a collectibles market there is competition and limitedness. As someone buying collectibles as toys, I wish they were all retail. I wish they were all available the way GI Joe was to us as kids on shelves for 2 yr runs, but it is not. Fun Pub is not going to produce 10,000 units of each figure to keep the retail costs to $10 for a market of collectors that is only 2,500 (being generous). Yes the Club has about 18,000 fans on Facebook, but most of those fans are just sideline fans, coming by for nostalgia, not necessarily to buy. In the future, they may start collecting, and they will be in the same position as people are right now, regretting not buying when they had the chance. Should everything be re-re-released for them as well? What about the "next" group that did not sign up?

    What is the answer? I really don't know, but I can't see just reissuing the hard to find figures and punishing those that were smart enough to get in on the ground floor. I guess I will wait until I see another 2011 Mickey Mouse Convention Exclusive come up and decide whether $150 is worth it for a toy or not...
    Last edited by rjhiii@sover.net; 06-06-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  4. #24
    Private First Class morgardee@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    That said, I would like to see other collector's (those that are true collector's and don't balk at $40 figures) get a shot at them
    I'm curious. What did you mean by this? How does the price point reflect if someone is a true collector or not?

  5. #25
    True collectors are obsessed, and if they want something they will pay anything for it, budget, plan etc. Fans, like the product but don't support the line. They wait for clearance or for them to go to "Ross.

  6. #26
    Regardless of what scalpers do, hasbro and fun pub will make the next step a business move. It would be great if that means figures that are exclusives to retailers. If secondhand figures are going for $100 a figure there is a market to fill that's grossly under supplied leaving the door open for repaints or new versions of figures. If the conventions perform well enough, then having con exclusives make sense to an extent. However in the age of website retail, we can just look at pictures vs attending. A large contingent of club member states can't attend conventions so offering a baggy figure from the site at some pint after a convention would sell figures. It would work as long as fun pub and hasbro have adequate margins. In any case it might take another movie to support a wider distribution of figures. the POC and 50th figures were great. If Hasbro and fun pub both were working on something, it would be good for collectors. More business to the producers and less to scalpers usually works better.

  7. #27
    Agree, but as what point does a scalper become an investor? 3 yrs, 5 yrs, 10 yrs? Most of the figures we are talking about were from conventions 5 yrs prior, from the first rounds of FSS that were made to order. All people had to do was order in that case. The only tough nut to take are the convention exclusives which are the "draw" to attend. Night Force Lady Jaye, Night Force Crazy Legs, Freefall, the Argentina 7 3 pack and 2 pack, etc. those are the only ones where the numbers and availability have issues. That could be resolved simply by allowing the entire membership the opportunity to buy a set when registering for the Con. Put the price up a little so attendees have an incentive and a benefit, and make them like the FSS all or nothing, and so as to not ruin the surprise they would have to be sight unseen. Those that don't attend, don't preorder sight unseen get one last shot in the Club store with what is left.

  8. #28
    Here is a prediction- I have only seen one store (Guru Planet) offering FSS 6.0 for preorders. There are usually 5-6 big resellers including BBTS selling subs during the subscription period. If they don't sub, or sub less on this set watch the prices for Vorona,The Noght Stalker Leader, GhostRider, Rampart, SubZero, Worms go through the roof. Again, a numbers game because people sub less, means there are less available. When the resellers sub less or don't sub at all availability will be limited even further...

  9. #29
    Private First Class morgardee@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I gotta say I strongly disagree with your statement.

    I was the one who said a second run's price point should be $30 and not $40. This is to maximize the potential buyer base and based on previous items such as the Transformers crossover figures that are currently listed at $29.00 this is a realistic expectation.

    By your logic I am not a "true" collector, which couldn't be further from the truth. I was one of the people who helped produce the Canadian GI Joe convention figures. I did a majority of 6 pf the 8 2011 convention set, all by hand, for fans. My collection runs from original AT up to the current line and is not limited to just North America but MOSC figures from all over the world. I've never done a head count but I must have thousands of figures.

    That being said, I've never called myself a "True" collector. It puts a dived in the collector community and separates myself from someone who might not have the same resources I have. At the end of the day GI Joe is a toy, and toys should bring joy and people together, not dived them. When I meet someone new and subject comes up I simply say "I'm a fan of GI Joe".

    If the club is indeed loosing the rights to GI Joe in 2018 then that *****. I love the product and it's cool they made a living off of Joe and made a bunch of us happy. However, if they want to generate a lot of cash at the end and make the majority of the fan base happy they will do a second run and keep the cost point reasonable for a pre-order system. If it's a pre-order then they already have the money and there is no risk of sitting stock. A guarantee sale means no risk and no risk equals cheaper selling point.

    This is why I think a second run is a great idea. It gives everyone a 2nd shot at something great that we all love. If you want to invest in something that is stable and goes up in value invest in gold. If you want something that looks great on display and is fun to play with buy a GI Joe.

  10. #30
    Corporal bassistcarlos@sbcglobal.net's Avatar
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    This is the most dialogue I've seen on the club's site, in a while. All I've really wanted is success for the club, and in my opinion, that means dollars coming in & product going out. If & when the club is in its final year, and they're not going to do anymore conventions, then there's no reason why the club couldn't do a "best of fun pub" release, on their way out, for those that want to see a difference between con originals and 2nd run figures, all that has to be done is release those "boxed & bagged" figures as "carded" or update the parts with more recent pieces. The club has already done this with Darklon, so it's not unprecedented, or change the name, like Bazooka became Sgt. Katzenbogen. If figures were carded in their original release, then release them bagged, the 2nd time around. I'm sure there are collectors out there that have the Oktober Guard set & Mission Brazil II set, that wouldn't mind seeing carded versions of those figures. The price point, per figure, could stay around FSS prices.