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View Full Version : Original Havoc mold?



Thompson.hunter58@yahoo.com
07-05-2015, 05:01 PM
I just recently purchased a 2014 HAVOC, and upon checking it out, I realized that it was the snow cat cast from back in the 80s. This is not a complaint or criticism, but I was curious, if the tooling for the snow cat was available, wouldn't it be a safe assumption to make that the HAVOC tooling was as well, or has it been lost or what? I am just. Curious, because I loved my HAVOC that I used to play with, and the only thing I miss about the update is the seat on top of the vehicle, and a few of the other design aspects. Anyway, just curious if anyone has info as to what possibly happened to the original tooling that kept it from being used in the update, or was it simpy a cost thing?

viceroyhaako@hotmail.com
07-05-2015, 07:40 PM
My guess is the tooling answer. You've gotta remember, the HAVOC mold was probably made in 85 for an 86 release, then reused for the Sky HAVOC in 90. That's 25 years ago. If you were in the loop about the 07 Joe con exclusives planned, they were going to have 2 repainted Maulers for Steeler and Rip It, and even made new molds or something for some of the parts. The molds were so old that some broke, and it made it impossible for them to finish producing. There were several critics about that incident, people complaining about how they should've made new toolings or molds or whatever and finished producing the tanks, but the reality was, they'd actually lost money trying to produce them. They gave full refunds to everyone who had preordered them, and offered refunds for the figures if they wanted to return the figures.

As you may know, the Joe club reuses a lot of molds for their exclusives, occasionally creating new heads, body parts, weapons, or accessories, I believe they use Boss Fight Studios a lot for some if not all of their new things, and new molds and things like that can get expensive (which is why Hasbro has reused several things like that in the past, and are still doing it!), so they have to use what's available to them, and sometimes that means getting creative. As you may know, the HAVOC is based on the Snow Cat, but not the original. It's based on the 30th anniversary version that came out a couple of years ago. Note the missile launcher mounted on the back as partial proof. My guess is that the HAVOC mold is loooooong gone, either from being discarded, lent to a foreign company and never returned, or so old it disintegrates whenever picked up, so in order to create a new one would cost more than we'd be willing to pay as club members, and certainly more than the club would want to pay, unless Hasbro paid the majority of the cost or something (which would mean they were going to come out with a ME version, which would probably make the club version moot, unless the club did a Sky Patrol version, which I'd be ok with).

In any case, the club (my guess anyway) probably looked at all of their options for an existing mold of a Joe vehicle, and decided that the snow cat would probably be the closest to the original HAVOC, and possibly the most logical choice for what Cross Country would drive. Therefore, the repainted mold.

Personally, I was surprised they didn't do a Tiger Cat for the con this year. I mean, TF Frostbite and all...

Thompson.hunter58@yahoo.com
07-06-2015, 05:13 AM
Very interesting. I did not know that about the 07 exclusives. I've been into joes since my parents bought my first ones in probably 88 or 89, but I actually didn't discover the club until about 2012. It's funny you mention the tiger snow cat bc I was looking at buying one for my TF frostbite and that's when I noticed the HAVOC thing. I thought I had read somewhere in the forum here or at hisstank about some molds being lost or destroyed , would be nice to find that post because I seem to remember maybe some specifics mentioned. Whether or not they were speculating or if it was legit info, I'm not sure.

Since you mentioned the snow cat, I know this is kind of off topic, but, as I said, I was looking for one to display my frostbite in, do you, or anyone else reading, know how well the ME figures fit into some of the older vehicles. Mostly wondering for vehicles like the snowcat that are enclosed and have a finite amount of room.. For example, I'm sure you could fit a ME cover girl into a wolverine as there's no enclosed top, but considering the snowcat closes, and with similar vehicles, just wondering if anyone has tried this and can report how well it works.

kelty11@verizon.net
07-06-2015, 08:09 AM
This is the unfortunate situation with many of the original molds. God knows where Hasbro was able to find the mold for the Cobra Wolf last year as that was not seen since 1994 (mail order). I still wonder what other surprise original molds are still available (Mamba, Skystorm, Retaliator, FANG II, etc). Judging from this year's SDCC offerings we know that the Snow Cat, HISS and Skystrker are still around. With the use of the Skystriker as Cobra Vehicle I am wondering if the mold to the Rattler has been lost or destroyed.

I hope the club releases a vehicle 2-pack of the Snow Cat and Tiger Cat sometime this year.

viceroyhaako@hotmail.com
07-06-2015, 08:45 AM
We've got a Snow Cat already from about 2-3 years ago, remember? As far as the molds go, I'd be willing to bet that the Snow Cat, if it was based on the original mold, modifications surely had to be made, not only for the foot pegs, but for the ****pit also. I'm not sure the ****pit is the same as the original (I've got mine in storage, so I can't just pull them both out right now). As far as the Rattler goes, remember the Target exclusive Tiger Rat and Rattler they came out with a few years ago along with the Conquest and Python Conquest? Some of the molds probably still exist, and the ones that have issues (like broken or lost molds) I'm sure they have new ones made or just replace with different parts. The Water Moccasin was entirely new (look at the size of it compared to the original). The Sky Striker I'm sure was mostly new molds (look how the ****pit attaches to the main body-I don't think the original did that), as was the new Tomahawk (too many differences to be the same mold). Hasbro has this much going for them-if they're doing brand new molds on ME versions of old vehicles (Rage, Snow Cat, etc), they're doing a heck of a job staying pretty faithful to the original design.

j_yoders@hotmail.com
07-06-2015, 09:03 AM
Mold to the rattler was reused in 2009 for the reissue so it's still out there.

jared.vitosh@gmail.com
07-06-2015, 09:45 AM
Since you mentioned the snow cat, I know this is kind of off topic, but, as I said, I was looking for one to display my frostbite in, do you, or anyone else reading, know how well the ME figures fit into some of the older vehicles. Mostly wondering for vehicles like the snowcat that are enclosed and have a finite amount of room.. For example, I'm sure you could fit a ME cover girl into a wolverine as there's no enclosed top, but considering the snowcat closes, and with similar vehicles, just wondering if anyone has tried this and can report how well it works.

There is a thread on Hisstank.com about this topic with a list of vehicles that work. http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-modern-general-discussion/5223-25th-anniversary-compatible.html

You're right, most vehicles will fit most figures. Some vehicles with tight ****pits, like the Dragonfly, have trouble accommodating ME figures, and some bigger figures, like Leatherneck, will not fit in a lot of vehicles, but most work fine. The footpegs for standing on the back or side of vehicles will all be the wrong size unfortunately.
I think the Tiger Cat specifically fits Frostbite just fine, but I don't actually have one myself.

Thompson.hunter58@yahoo.com
07-06-2015, 11:38 AM
We've got a Snow Cat already from about 2-3 years ago, remember? As far as the molds go, I'd be willing to bet that the Snow Cat, if it was based on the original mold, modifications surely had to be made, not only for the foot pegs, but for the ****pit also. I'm not sure the ****pit is the same as the original (I've got mine in storage, so I can't just pull them both out right now). As far as the Rattler goes, remember the Target exclusive Tiger Rat and Rattler they came out with a few years ago along with the Conquest and Python Conquest? Some of the molds probably still exist, and the ones that have issues (like broken or lost molds) I'm sure they have new ones made or just replace with different parts. The Water Moccasin was entirely new (look at the size of it compared to the original). The Sky Striker I'm sure was mostly new molds (look how the ****pit attaches to the main body-I don't think the original did that), as was the new Tomahawk (too many differences to be the same mold). Hasbro has this much going for them-if they're doing brand new molds on ME versions of old vehicles (Rage, Snow Cat, etc), they're doing a heck of a job staying pretty faithful to the original design.

Snow cat from 2-3 years ago? The newest I can find is from 2003, when and what series was the snow cat you're talking about released with?

Thompson.hunter58@yahoo.com
07-06-2015, 11:41 AM
Never mind, I found it, the snowcat wolfhound POC... I can't find it for sale anywhere though :( I want one!

viceroyhaako@hotmail.com
07-06-2015, 01:01 PM
Check evilbay, there's probably someone with one for sale. Or, try some of the sites that sponsor hisstank and yojoe. Or, put a feeler out on the wanted forums for this site, yojoe and hisstank.

kelty11@verizon.net
07-06-2015, 01:55 PM
I forgot about the Wolfhound. I think was probably one of Hasbro's usual here today gone forever mayflies!

rew97@live.com
07-06-2015, 04:35 PM
If you want an original Havoc you should be able to get one on the secondary market for cheaper than the Havoc MK2. I bought a new one when Cross Country was first announced and ME joes fit into it just fine.