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ATBotts78@gmail.com
06-24-2016, 05:58 PM
So in the next two years how many of you would like to see a convention set of BF 2000 vs Red Shadows?
The forum is saturated with threads about filling in all the 1983-1990 gaps before the club does or doesn't go extinct in 2018.

Personally I'd love to see BF 2000 vs A new take on Baron Ironblood (a more realistic design), Black Major, Red Jackyl, Red Laser, some Red Shadow Troopers and Red Torches.

Who would you want to see in a convention set or FSS with BF2000?

kaljzl0824@yahoo.com
06-24-2016, 08:19 PM
Cobra La, how bout that

julestobin@gmail.com
06-24-2016, 09:31 PM
Definitelythink Cobra-La is due soon. But to add BF2000 to the Convention Box would be too much. The subtle hint eveybody gets months ahead of time would be a cross between Lasers and sporeous pods under red and blue skies...

bassistcarlos@sbcglobal.net
06-24-2016, 09:35 PM
I'm not a fan of BF2000, but if it included the Red Shadows, the Plague, Cobra La, Headhunters, Black Dragon or any other Cobra faction, I would support it.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
06-24-2016, 09:53 PM
And you know what? That's all I'm asking for. I don't even care if they totally retooled the BF 2000 members uniforms. I don't care if they made them a modern day black ops or PMC-Esque resembling platoon. I don't care if they retooled them to look like Stalker's Vietnam platoon of Dick Saperstein, Ramone Escobedo, Wade Collins, Tommy Arashikage and SE for that matter. We need a Blocker, Dodger, Maverick, and company no matter how you slice it. I don't care if they all mirrored the Mission Brazil II Wetsuit. Just give us BF 2000 please!!

rcmejia@gmail.com
06-25-2016, 12:40 AM
##### #### ### sucky

ATBotts78@gmail.com
06-25-2016, 06:15 PM
I agree. Modern Era Battle Force 2000 would be great. A big gap filler.

charlesbarry1975@hotmail.com
06-28-2016, 10:51 PM
Sounds like a good idea. Updated versions of BF 2000 with a chance to add maybe a new figure or two. Could rename the team to BF 3000 or possibly BF Elite.

rjhiii@sover.net
06-29-2016, 05:34 AM
Battle Force 2.0

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 11:00 AM
Battle Force 2.0 vs Red Shadows
Avalanche
Blaster
Blocker
Dodger
Knockdown
Maverick
Firewall (club retrofit DDP character into BF2.0)

Baron Ironblood
Black Major
Red Laser
Red Jackal
Skeletron
Red Shadow troops x 3

Drop figure
Red Wolf
Two Pack
Red Vulture & Dee Jay


Three pack
Muton Robotic Troopers x 3

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-26-2016, 11:04 AM
BF2000 Vs. Red Shadows Set:
Avalanche
Blaster
Blocker
Dodger
Knockdown
Maverick
Dee Jay
Black Major
Baron Iron Blood
4 Red Shadows Troopers
2 Red Torches

Hyena (Hiss) with Red Jackal
Laser Exterminator (HAL of FLAK depending on availability of molds) with Red Laser

Any other suggestions


I love it, but also...Red Jackyl should not be a Destro repaint...he, just like Baron Ironblood, and Black Major, need modern updates.

kelty11@verizon.net
08-26-2016, 12:09 PM
Thanks for re-posting my suggestion. I completely forgot that there was a BF2000 vs Red Shadows thread.

kelty11@verizon.net
08-26-2016, 12:15 PM
These seem to be the most talked about themes for possible convention sets:
1. Cobra-La (which, fortunately or unfortunately is off the table)
2. DEF vs. Headhunters (a likely set for either '17 or '18)
3. BF2000 vs. Somebody (Red Shadows, Iron Grenadiers round 3, etc)
4. Star Brigade - this would be an awesome set but I feel this would be not doable due to lack of proper toolings and vehicles.
5. Joe vs. Cobra (Armored Forces) - a great way to get some 1987-91 figures out)

Wow - 5 themes and only two left.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 12:22 PM
There is also a good number of suggestions for more AT in 3 3/4" now that Dr. Venom, Joe Colton and the 50th sent people looking for them...

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-26-2016, 01:07 PM
Remember when BBTS released the 7 packs of Dreadnoks & Slaughters Mauraders? Did they not make enough money on those sales to justify doing that again? Because I feel like we could have Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows And DEF vs Headhunters in one year's time if one set was convention and the other two sets were released the way the Dreadnoks and Maurauders were.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 01:14 PM
That has been suggested also 7 packs of figures guess how many members BF2000 has...

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-26-2016, 02:36 PM
Ah ha! I didn't even think of that! Oh man that would be great!!

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 03:30 PM
Yes, but it would preclude the Club slipping Firewall into the BF 2.0 to get her produced...

jimsnow70@aol.com
08-26-2016, 03:59 PM
Battle Force 2.0 vs Red Shadows
Avalanche
Blaster
Blocker
Dodger
Knockdown
Maverick
Firewall (club retrofit DDP character into BF2.0)

Baron Ironblood
Black Major
Red Laser
Red Jackal
Skeletron
Red Shadow troops x 3

Drop figure
Red Wolf
Two Pack
Red Vulture & Dee Jay


Three pack
Muton Robotic Troopers x 3

I'm liking these options right here.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 04:11 PM
Hahahahaha Me too!

rjhiii@sover.net
08-26-2016, 04:13 PM
I agree, have you seen the Galactic Plastics customs? On one of these threads I posted them...

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-26-2016, 08:13 PM
Yes, I thought they were pretty terrific. Even their Baron Ironblood "bee keeper," mask looked good, and that's hard to accomplish.

Dredwolf83@aol.com
08-27-2016, 01:20 AM
BF2000? Will that include the vehicles? Bring Em on.

kelty11@verizon.net
08-27-2016, 10:51 AM
WindsorVT. I like your suggestion of including Firewall in the main set. Always great to get another new female Joe (or Jane :) )

sheila4420@hotmail.com
08-27-2016, 02:07 PM
Honestly, I kinda liked the Battle Force 2000 team, as their roll in my eyes was to develop and test experimental weaponry. I think with the modern era figures, Matt Trakker would be the designer of new Joe vehicles and the BF 2000 team would test them in battle. Although, I REALLY want a Cobra-La set, and maybe even new sculpts of Nemesis ENFORCER (not Immortal) and Serpentor. And I know I'm probably a minority here, but I'd REALLY REALLY love it if the Club would re-release just the Oktober Guard team one more time! I had to sell mine due to financial difficulties and can't find a set under $800 online. It would be great if they could just release the 6-man OG team. Never really got into the Red Shadows though.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-27-2016, 07:20 PM
Now you have me envisioning Blocker, driving the Eliminator, with Blaster firing the missiles out the back of the vehicle, while Dodger rests his RPG cannon on the roll bar firing it at on-coming enemy combatants. Great now I need another Robert Atkins commissioned sketch, lol.

NS550@aol.com
08-27-2016, 09:03 PM
If it's a con set that would definitely mean 1 or 2 of the vehicles, hopefully there's a way to make a modern take on them, if not that's fine to me it's really more the figures i'd like to see.

I don't know the technical aspects of doing this but if it's possible I would like to see the vehicles as GI Joe/Transformers joint club releases that come together, like Defensor. This is obviously just a dream because it would require brand new molds for them which I know would not happen through the club but I always saw BF2000 vehicles like the GI Joe's transformers. Anyway, like i said before, I would be happy just having the figures made!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-28-2016, 06:01 AM
Yeah, beggers can't be choosers, and Battle Force 2000 figures are what I'm begging for. They'd make a great opponent for the Red Shadows.

gothiczartan84@gmail.com
08-29-2016, 07:58 PM
Battle Force 2.0 vs Red Shadows
Avalanche
Blaster
Blocker
Dodger
Knockdown
Maverick
Firewall (club retrofit DDP character into BF2.0)

Baron Ironblood
Black Major
Red Laser
Red Jackal
Skeletron
Red Shadow troops x 3

Drop figure
Red Wolf
Two Pack
Red Vulture & Dee Jay


Three pack
Muton Robotic Troopers x 3[/QUOTE]

What they need is new head sculpts, new removable helmet sculpts, some new removable vests for most BF 2000 and for Red Shadows mostly new head sculpts and some new accessories like helmets and hats.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 06:20 AM
In an ideal world, but none of us want to start the Con Set at $1,000 plus the add ons at retail. The more "new" the more $$$$

NS550@aol.com
08-30-2016, 07:59 AM
This is true but to be fair a lot of the con sets have had new head sculpts on a good portion of the characters, off hand I know the Oktober Guard vs IG set had a lot of new head sculpts so I don't think it's too far fetched to hope for the same on future ones.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 08:56 AM
You have a point there. I just hope we get them period. Both sides of the set would please a lot of people.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 09:00 AM
This is also true and gets my hopes up. I also sent an email to David Lane prior to the Sky Patrol Con Set Reveal, and he seemed receptive to the idea that Battle Force should get its turn to fill in the '87-90 Gap. He said there have been requests for it, the numbers just weren't as high as the ones that got made, (i.e. Tiger and Night Force, and Sky Patrol) so hopefully by eliminating the competition by them already having produced those team, now Battle Force will get its turn!

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 10:04 AM
The October Guard Set was the pinnacle of new head sculpts, it set the bar so high that since then the complaints about head sculpts have been heard ever since.

Really, I can see Tiger Force, Night Force, Mission Brazil, Sky Patrol, Sonic Fighters (without the sonic) as they were in the 82-90 run, but the Sonic Fighters, Sky Patrol would be last and the BF 2000 would be in front as they are not just repaints. Anything after 1990, well personally, it isn't necessary to my goals of getting my niece and nephew everything we had as kids in the ME. I'll get it for them, but I want to finish the core before they are too old to play with them... So every time I see a 1991 or newer figure being updated I cringe... Not just because they were ugly bright messes, but I have no connection to them. I understand if you started to collect in 1989 plus it is you Joeverse, but should you want the characters you were never able to have first?

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 11:21 AM
I share your bias, and for the same reasons. But I try to see the good aspects of whatever the offering is. Hence my heated debate on the other thread about DDP & IDW. But I totally agree that Sky Patrol should not have come before Battle Force 2000, but then again, if the votes / requests of the members voicing their opinions, out weighed us, then you can't argue with catering to the majority. I just hope the majority is finally ready for BattleForce vs Red Shadows. The Sky Patrol Con Set was the first modern , post O-ring con set, that I didn't want a single figure from.

Again, I wonder if they didn't make their money back on the 7 figure Dreadnoks and Marauder Sets? If they did, why wouldn't they keep offering sets like that? You could almost garauntee that we'd see BF2000 if Con, FSS, and 7 pack BBTS venues were all accessible ways to get the figures produced before the end of 2018. I can only deduce that they didn't make enough money, because it's been several years since those 7 packs came out.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 12:21 PM
I think they probably made their money back plus some, I think the hesitation is the upfront costs. I know the Dreadnoks sold out quickly, the Slaughter's Maurauders lingered (still missing a few members Mutt and Junkyard, Footloose, and Sarge- Who won't get made). Look at them on the secondary market now though. Also the AOCI, and DOCI sat, and then went to clearance before they were gobbled up, then the secondary market as more collector's realized the 25th ME stuff was being released got involved. I know I went scrambling for pre 2012 once my sister green lighted the GI Joe option for her kids. Then it was full speed ahead. I was glad I was able to get the 2009 Crimson Strike, 2011, Mission Brazil, and October Guard sets before they went too nuts on the secondary market. I think there were a lot of people that realized the 25th Anniversary stuff existed well after it was released and were Johnny come lately to the party so to speak. I think that accounts for some of the spike in prices as well unfortunately.

Rguthei1@twcny.rr.com
08-30-2016, 12:31 PM
My theory on the 7pks is they were very slow sellers. I wouldn't be surprised if it took into this year to sell all of them. Based on that would it make financial sense to add additional 7pk options if what you have isn't selling.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 12:46 PM
Yes, but there is the break even point, then the profit point, then the stragglers. I think they made their break even point relatively quickly and the profit was realized a couple of years ago when they people just coming back to GI Joe discovered they existed. So many people do not know BBTS existed, yet alone the exclusives they had available. They were paying $250 on Ebay for two sets they could get off from BBTS for $90 each at the time. Since then BBTS has upped their Ebay game. I think the 7 packs work, like the FSS with a pre-order system to cover the costs, then a few extra available afterwards to make the profit...

funpubincadmin
08-30-2016, 01:01 PM
Warning: this thread has strayed "Off Topic" and any further posts that are not related to the thread title will be removed.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 01:06 PM
With that said, Dear Club, please make Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows in any way you see fit (Convention, BBTS 7 packs, or FSS)
Just make sure to do it before 2018 is over. Sincerely yours, Abernathy-Was-Right, Windsor VT, Lt Kelly, And everyone else who supported or will support this thread that I hope continues to grow in positive commenters.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 01:48 PM
Exactly, a Convention set would be ideal, because it would be a way to get the Red Shadows also, plus a way to slip Firewall in. Always great to have another female character...

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 01:53 PM
and if the Mystery 13th is Firewall- then please slip Mayday into the mix...lol! You could even put her in charge of BF 2.0 as their unit commander when retconning her story. Especially since she is an Extreme character/ as well as a DDP character...

huntersabin@yahoo.com
08-30-2016, 01:57 PM
Here, here for BF2000!!!!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 02:58 PM
Interesting... A female character satellite command post / board room professional "handler," of the Battle Force 2000 team. She gets field op feedback on how the experimental weapons and technology are working / performing in the field. She's a liaison to the D.O.D and General Hawk's R&D quality control expert. I love this idea!!

Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows becomes a more ingenious idea by the day!

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 03:44 PM
That is only if Firewall is the 13th, otherwise she is the computer diagnostic, communication and upgrade person for BF 2.0's equipment... Some one has to keep the tech up to date and working...

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 05:40 PM
So in the next two years how many of you would like to see a convention set of BF 2000 vs Red Shadows?
Abernathy-Was-Right I pm's you here about this thread...

jbradds@yahoo.com
08-30-2016, 06:23 PM
I'd love to see Hardtop and Payload

rjhiii@sover.net
08-30-2016, 06:25 PM
Interesting, how would you fit them into the BF 2000 concept?

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 06:34 PM
Windsor VT, I responded to your PM about this thread.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 06:52 PM
I'd love to see Hardtop and Payload

Payload & Hardtop as BattleForce 2000, hmmm. I could see it. Backstory of Payload is great, that he was a pilot in Southeast Asia. I picture him a combination of Maverick (a BF2000 alum already - and Matt Damon's quick thinking character in "The Martian." Payload and Maverick could fly a BattleForce 2000 prototype plane with experimental weapons, tech, and radar evading capabilities.

Hardtop as BF2000. Even an easier sell. He's a quick thinker and he's great at improv according to his File Card. His secondary specialty is electronics. He could be an asset for sure to the team. He could sit next to Firewall or Mayday (see why above page 5 of this thread) and be a trouble shooter for the guys in the field when their equipment malfunctions. That or he could drive the BF Eliminator up cliffs. (See his filecard for further details on mountain climbing - lol)

skintat2@hotmail.com
08-30-2016, 06:58 PM
Definitely want BF 2000....but no red shadows

williamhouze43@yahoo.com
08-30-2016, 07:04 PM
Bf2000 asap

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-30-2016, 07:08 PM
Thank you for your BF2000 support! If you don't like Red Shadows, who would you suggest they fight because the Cobra-La thing just isn't an option for legal reasons. Do you dislike Red Shadows because you are afraid their leaders will just be re-paints or is there another reason? For example, are you worried that Red Jackyl would be a Destro repaint? I don't think the club would do that. Are you concerned about the bee-keeper box head on Baron Ironblood? Because I don't think the club would do that either. I think we would get modernized takes on those characters. But if you have a different reason, let us know, and again...thank you sincerely for the Battle Force 2000 support! Hopefully we will have Blocker, Dodger, Blaster and the boys in hand in 2017. Yo Joe!

gothiczartan84@gmail.com
08-31-2016, 03:04 AM
http://orig00.deviantart.net/c7e9/f/2015/207/1/b/red_laser_by_gothiczartan-d92kwc1.jpg
Red Laser

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-31-2016, 04:27 AM
I like it. Plus it's a nice red target for Dodger to shoot at from a distance.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-31-2016, 07:29 AM
The reality is Red Shadows and BF 2000 are both highly requested, others include Mega Marines, Battle Corps, finishing off Ninja Force, Star Brigade DEF and Head Hunters, but to me those are all Meh. We need to finish off 1987 which is Battle Force 2000, I would have loved for them to be opposing Cobra La ----> Technology based vs Organic living based teams. Since that is not possible, choose another highly sought after sub set- that otherwise would not be produced- Red Shadows. We are getting the Action Force slowly through FSS so give us their enemies in a Con Set vs BF 2000. Kill two proverbial birds with one stone...

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-31-2016, 10:55 AM
I pray not Star Brigade, especially not right after Sky Patrol. I think Drug Elimination Force (DEF) is the biggest competition to BF2000, especially having a natural sub team enemy in Head Hunters. But come on, seriously, 1/2 of them would be repaints, (Mutt, Law, Shockwave, and Muskrat) vs All new Blocker, Blaster, Dodger, Dee-Jay, Maverick, Avalanche, and Knockdown. When you look at that, you have to vote BattleForce 2000

kelty11@verizon.net
08-31-2016, 11:23 AM
I think that absent Cobra-La Red Shadows would be the best villains for BF2000 as they are pseudo-tech oriented. The only other options would be a 3rd round of IG's or the Mega Marines.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-31-2016, 12:08 PM
I think that absent Cobra-La Red Shadows would be the best villains for BF2000 as they are pseudo-tech oriented. The only other options would be a 3rd round of IG's or the Mega Marines.

Yeah and one would hope that Cobra zombies is where the Club draws the line. No Mega-Marines without Mega Monsters, and please no Mega Monsters!!

I think that the Red Shadows would be a great adversary for the reasons you already mentioned. Plus it's another previously O-ring only group getting modern era indoctrination.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-31-2016, 12:23 PM
. I think Drug Elimination Force (DEF) is the biggest competition to BF2000, especially having a natural sub team enemy in Head Hunters.

I would not want any DEF or Headhunters. There would not be a single figure it that set that would warrant me to buy it. Every single figure would be post 1990 during the "garbage time" when GI Joe went seriously off the rails. Since I wouldn't have owned a single figure, or character, then it would not upset me if I was unable to get them for my niece and nephew. I know there are post early run Joe fans, but to me this would be a complete and utter waste of a set, especially given we are guaranteed only two more sets. Just say NO to anything past 1990 for a theme!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
08-31-2016, 12:36 PM
Just say No to everything after 1990, and say yes to 1987's BattleForce 2000!

I want to send Lane and Savage tee-shirts that have Dodger pointing like Uncle SAM in the recruitment posters with the caption "Battle Force 2000 wants you!"

NS550@aol.com
08-31-2016, 02:50 PM
The 2008 JoeCon that had the vintage style Headhunter set actually did them really well and included characters from 1990 and earlier like Bullhorn, Shockwave, LowLight, and Long Arm and they fit nicely with the box set. I think if they're done properly the later figures can be great additions to any set. Of course I understand the members that lost interest when the post 1990 sets turned GI Joes into brightly colored neon gun wielding cartoon characters, that's the time period that made me lose interest as well.

rjhiii@sover.net
08-31-2016, 04:02 PM
Those characters are okay, would fit, but we already have most of them so don't rehash the original set. I think the best opponent for an ME Red Shadows is BF 2.0 as you bring two highly desired groups into the modern era sculpt in one shot. The Red Shadows origins are back to the beginning years as well. They were introduced as the enemy in 82 or 83 of the European Counterpart of GI Joe Action Force. That works for me as well...

rjhiii@sover.net
08-31-2016, 04:17 PM
Created a Poll Thread on this topic Click here (http://www.gijoeclub.com/forums/showthread.php?1138-Unofficial-Poll-Red)

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-01-2016, 08:15 AM
I've been reading the vote poll thread comments. I hope all the people that commented that they like either BF2000 or Red Shadows vote yes and not no because they don't care about the other sub-group. That could skew the interest in measuring both groups desirability. When you read the comments thus far, it seems apparent that people are interested in both groups; just haven't warmed up to the idea of both in the same set. Hopefully both sides feel like getting the one they want is worth getting the whole set. You still have people screaming for Cobra-La even though the club says it's impossible.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-01-2016, 08:59 AM
Exactly Gi Joe is a big sandbox and we all have to learn to play together... With 50 years of history not everyone was a "kid" during the same time and has different nostalgia. Like the comments that say I don't want BF 2000, or I don't want Red Shadows but I love and want the other one. Well, isn't it better to get half, than nothing?

On another Thread was an idea for a Shattered Glass for 12" collectors, we know they mix the ARAH characters and the AT and the Club really wanted to do that idea at some point. Kind of unique, but the overwhelming response from ARAH collector's was not interested. So it was suggested, why not a set for the 12" Collector, which immediately brought in a 3 3/4" fan saying he would not buy any Shattered Glass set in any form. Well, you obviously from your other posts, only collect 3 3/4" so why feel the need to comment on a 12" suggestion. It is not like for that one year you are going to change from the 3 3/4" box set now is it? Also just because you do not like the concept at all, doesn't mean someone else absolutely loves the idea and story. Should this guy dictate to them that their interests doesn't matter? I know I am critical of the Ninjas, and Eco Force, and Zombies and want a focus on the 82-90 characters from the original ARAH run, but that is only because we have a shortened timetable of guaranteed figures. Otherwise, I would be happy with an extremely diverse FSS, I bought a Zombie vs Eco Force set and I didn't like any of those concepts. I did it to support the Club so when it was "my favorites turn" they could be made. Well BF2.0 is part of "my turn", Red Shadows is part of the "foreign/Action Force collector's turn" The Ninjas, the Eco Force, the Tiger Force, the Iron Grenadiers, Zombie collectors have a lot of their figures, now they have to share...

Rguthei1@twcny.rr.com
09-01-2016, 09:32 AM
I have np problem with BF2000 what so ever. In fact aside from Dreadnoks and Sky Patrol BF2000 was the only subgroup I bothered with back in the vintage times beyond a couple Slaughter's Marauder's figures so that at least I could say I had the character.

AS far as Red Shadows is concerned I'm very much a domestic collector. Foreign versions of domestic figures (such as Funskool) or ones on Asian language cards don't interest me. BUT when a fellow member of the boards on yojoe.com a few years ago was unloading his Red Shadows Collection (HE was American) I bought a fair number of them. I also bought off the secondary market a bagged version of the 2010 Con Set. Have I given the same respect to the Action Force itself. Not really I bought the Convention Q-Force and Z-Force Convention exclusives from a well known collector known as AIredevon and I have no problem with UK (Special) Action Force being part of the FSS.

I definitely would buy a Con Set with both and probably arrange to get most of the exclusives depending on size and price. (I'm one of the few I know of who actually was willing to buy the Jump 6pks despite their $55 price tags)

rjhiii@sover.net
09-01-2016, 10:26 AM
Exactly- you buy the stuff you don't need or necessarily like to support the club so you get the stuff you do want. I totally agree with that, but I wouldn't pay $55 for 5 jet packs, but glad there are people like you willing to do that as it keeps the club going...

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-01-2016, 11:08 AM
This is good stuff people. Honest feelings without attacking past production or future hopes. And Steel_Brigade_Plastica, I tell you what brother, I was a completely domestic guy too until I read some of the Action Force comics prior to the decision to merge Ironblood and Jackyl into becoming Cobra Commander and Destro. And some of their stories were pretty great stuff mixed with real world politics. Once I realized they weren't trying to make their guys carbon copies of our Joes, and that they only appeared that way because of toy production costs, I began to appreciate them more. But full disclosure here, I want BattleForce 2000 in the worst way. I want Red Shadows because of the appreciation I gained reading those comics. If other major domestic antagonist groups had not been produced already, I would be pushing for Iron Grenadiers or Oktober Guard, or other Cobra Sub-teams. But all those have been made for the most part, and I'd rather get Red Shadows into the modern era before 2018 ends, than stay redundant with more of the same. But keep this Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows thread alive and relevant people! The Club sees and hears all. I am convinced of that now more than ever! Who doesn't want Dodger holding that RPG with the spiked brass knuckle looking trigger guard! Yo Joe.

Rguthei1@twcny.rr.com
09-01-2016, 06:03 PM
WindsorVT A BIG part of the reason I admit that I bought the Q-Force Set is because I like Female Characters and that was probably around the time I was working to acquire some of the more obscure female characters and Agent Natalie Poole certainly qualified. Heck I consider female Characters (especially NEW female characters) to get extra draw points in determining whether to get this COn Set or Subscribe to that FSS Run (4.0's extra points being after the fact)

WindsorVT I definitely like your ideas of retconning Firewall and/or MayDay into BF2000 because they could use a female member.

One group I left off in my original post above that I got into some is Ninja Force (Dojo, T'JBang, Nunchuk, Slice, Dice, NF Scarlett) Hopefully we'll get BF2000 and or Red Shadows if not both But I won't get too upset if we don't get either or both.

Oh and Abernathy-Was-Right. IF we do get BF2000 I'm willing to bet they will parcel out weapons from existing molds instead of giving use new versions of their original weapons and I doubt each BF2000 Figure would get a vehicle since they do try and keep the $$$$$ reasonable as possible. To do that would mean spending $2000 a person on the vehicles at crazy prices.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-01-2016, 11:23 PM
Doesn't matter to me if we don't get a single vehicle or Dodger's iconic weapon, as long as we get the original six members:
Dodger, Blocker, Blaster, Maverick, Knockdown, and Avalanche. Dee-Jay in the con-exclusive 2 pack with a Red Shadow member would be a nice bonus.

The other aforementioned stuff is just me day dreaming of a Battle Force Bonanza, haha.

NS550@aol.com
09-02-2016, 05:27 AM
I agree, if this set does come out I'm sure the club will do what it can to give us a vehicle or unique weapons and if the can't then at least we will finally have the figures. Personally I'd like there to be a way to get those additional con exclusives even if you can't attend the con, I'd be very upset missing out on Dee-Jay if he was in the exclusive 2-pack, they always go for a lot on ebay and I usually can't make it to the cons. Red Shadow troops would make a great 3-pack exclusive too, there's a lot you can do with a set like this and it's hard to go wrong.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-02-2016, 09:24 AM
Sygil, I agree about the options if this set is produced. It makes me really excited honestly. And when Windsor VT pointed out that it'll actually be the 30th anniversary of Battle Force 2000 (1987-2017) it made me even more excited. There have been times I've felt like a kid again overwhelmed by nostalgia, like when the Club released the Mission Brazil II set, and the October Guard vs Iron Grenadiers. If Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows becomes a reality, I will have that same feeling again.

jared.vitosh@gmail.com
09-02-2016, 08:52 PM
A few years ago I made it my collecting mission to recreate the original ARAH Joe team (1 version of each character from 82-94), so a while ago I may have really like getting a Battle Force 2000 set. I've been doing pretty good between Hasbro, the Club, and a few minimal paint kitbashes, but lately I've been wondering if it worth the time, money, and space to continue that mission, or just concentrate on getting a few more figures that are important to me. The secondary market cost of some of this year's con exclusives ($100 for Freefall :( ) had something to do with this. I almost passed on the Sky Patrol set too, but I ended up getting the Joes for a decent price. I ordered FSS 5 because Ambush, Salvo, and Sneak Peek were must haves. I may keep a few others, but there are definitely some I will sell.
Anyway, back to the topic. I can certainly understand the desire to recreate the vintage teams, like Battle Force. I also get the appeal of Red Shadows and other figures that were never available here, but I'm not really into international figures. If this set was made it would be great for a whole lot of people, and who knows, maybe I would want them if they ended up looking good enough, but I don't really see how the club could make them without an awful lot of new parts. I would probably just grab Dodger* and forget about the rest of them. Just like Larry Hama.

(*I had Sonic Fighters Dodger as a kid, so I care about him a little.)

rjhiii@sover.net
09-02-2016, 09:26 PM
A few years ago I made it my collecting mission to recreate the original ARAH Joe team (1 version of each character from 82-94), so a while ago I may have really like getting a Battle Force 2000 set. I've been doing pretty good between Hasbro, the Club, and a few minimal paint kitbashes, but lately I've been wondering if it worth the time, money, and space to continue that mission, or just concentrate on getting a few more figures that are important to me. The secondary market cost of some of this year's con exclusives ($100 for Freefall :( ) had something to do with this. I almost passed on the Sky Patrol set too, but I ended up getting the Joes for a decent price. I ordered FSS 5 because Ambush, Salvo, and Sneak Peek were must haves. I may keep a few others, but there are definitely some I will sell.
Anyway, back to the topic. I can certainly understand the desire to recreate the vintage teams, like Battle Force. I also get the appeal of Red Shadows and other figures that were never available here, but I'm not really into international figures. If this set was made it would be great for a whole lot of people, and who knows, maybe I would want them if they ended up looking good enough, but I don't really see how the club could make them without an awful lot of new parts. I would probably just grab Dodger* and forget about the rest of them. Just like Larry Hama.

(*I had Sonic Fighters Dodger as a kid, so I care about him a little.)

My goal was similar - I was going 82-90, but originally just the ones I had as a kid, or really wanted. 89, 90 were the last two yrs and I left most on store pegs. That said, my goal was to get two kiddos their own versions of what my sister and I played with. Thanks to the diversity of the Club's offerings they not only have a larger collection than we did, but have figures that were not available or came after our collecting days. They like their Adventure Team figures, they like the Stall family, they like their Argen 7 (with a blonde custom Glenda). Things that are not high on my list. However, seeing the diversity offered and seeing the diversity of figures people want, we can choose to be selfish, or embrace our fellow fans. Yes, personally I would want an entire 1987 set. However, what is the incentive for others? Those that grew up after 87, or with foreign figures, or before ARAH? Shouldn't a Collector's Club serve them also? I bought an Eco Force vs Zombies set to support the club. I wanted zero of those figures, If it were up to me none of them would ever have been produced. Heck because this is not something I liked, nor my sister it isn't the kids favorite either. But somebody wanted it, and that is okay. So like you, pre 1990 is my first choice, but I am not greedy or selfish. I will take half of what I want, and let others have the other half. Just don't offer DEF vs HEADHUNTERS or something else completely past 1989/90...

NS550@aol.com
09-03-2016, 08:35 AM
You guys make great points and it's actually because of those goals that I think this would be a great set, the BF2000 side appeals to most of the collectors of that 82-90 time frame and the red shadows appeal to those interested in the international lines. I originally was only trying to convert all my vintage style joes to modern but then I started picking up figures that I never had before and they were great, so I am hoping to get most or all of that run from 82-90 and a few up to 92. However there were always some characters I was never really interested in getting and I think everyone has some, but if they are done well I think everyone would be able to appreciate the figure even if it was one of those that you previously had no interest in. I'm glad I picked up new modern versions of figures I never owned before and as long as the set looks good I'd definitely pick this one up too even though I never owned any Red Shadows.

Btw, jfaria, I agree completely about the cost of some of these con exclusives, i never got that Darklon/Sgt. Major Duncan 2 pack and ended up making my own Duncan figure, pretty accurate to the con version I'd say, and I'm probably going to do the same for Freestyle as I missed out on her too and she goes for way too much on ebay when she's actually listed. This is why I'd really like the option for future cons to be able to purchase the additional sets when you buy the homefront hero pack, it's still not cheap compared to retail but it's better than dealing with the outrageous prices people sell them for after the cons.

j_yoders@hotmail.com
09-03-2016, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't pay the exorbitant cost of a con set when half of it (Red Shadows) is an international set I knew nothing about before joining the Club. I'd simply buy the BF2000 figures individually on the secondary market if they were good enough. I need TWO groups that are worth collecting to pay the cost of the set, travel, lodging, etc.

NS550@aol.com
09-03-2016, 09:05 AM
I wouldn't pay the exorbitant cost of a con set when half of it (Red Shadows) is an international set I knew nothing about before joining the Club. I'd simply buy the BF2000 figures individually on the secondary market if they were good enough. I need TWO groups that are worth collecting to pay the cost of the set, travel, lodging, etc.

I think most people don't really know the Red Shadows because they were never really part of the main storyline of GI Joe, I never really knew much about them either but the more I read up the more interesting they sounded. I'm one of those people that like new additions to the sets and it's partly why I've loved the FSS so much but I know a lot of members just want to see modern versions of the figures they group up with so that's completely understandable. I think if the club said we could only have one or the other I'd probably side with using characters from the 82-90 era in a set over the Red Shadows too.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-03-2016, 10:31 AM
I also would want access to con exclusives as a Homefront option and would pay 50% more than at the con to the club so the attendees still get special treatment

kelty11@verizon.net
09-03-2016, 10:48 AM
I also would want access to con exclusives as a Homefront option and would pay 50% more than at the con to the club so the attendees still get special treatment

I agree. After paying $125 for Freefall (bought on ebay too early as I assumed this year's convention was the last) I would like the option of ordering the souvenir items with the Homefront Heroes set. I would also be willing to pay a premium. At this point I don't see the issue some people have with offering this option (the souvenirs are still going to be worth a bundle on ebay as only club members would have access to them).

I have basically given up on ever attaining the 2011 sets (a Mission Brazil II set has lingered on ebay for several weeks at $1750) as well as NF Chuckles, Freestyle and Crazy Legs. I am so glad that I never took the plunge and bought Darklon!!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-04-2016, 12:45 PM
It was a good learning lesson, either way. My belief is that BattleForce 2000 vs Red Shadows will sell well. My belief is that Battle Force 2000 (especially at this point in the road) will make sense to the 82-90 fans. Simply my belief, but hopefully grounded in logic, depending on your stance.

And as previously stated, the Fans of Action Force have no enemy for their plentifully FSS produced Action Force members to fight. Red Shadows would satisfy that and satisfy another group of fans. You make two groups of fans happy at once.

NS550@aol.com
09-04-2016, 04:48 PM
Hey, everyone is entitled to their own preferences that is partly what makes this club so great. Not even going in to the diversity of representing 12" and 3.75" collectors but within the 3.75" brand are people that only grew up on the newer things like extreme, VvV and so on and wouldn't understand why everyone is so crazy about 82-90. I agree that we should all support the club in all it's different groups but if a member says he's not interested in paying club prices for a series of figures he has no interest in then accepting his opinion is honoring that same diversity. I hope we can limit the criticizing of everyone's opinions in these threads because I don't want them to distract others from the fantastic points everyone is making about potential set ideas. Keep the suggestions coming! I for one and still hoping this BF 2000 vs Red Shadows idea sees JoeCon in 2017!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-04-2016, 04:53 PM
Me too brother, me too. Yo Joe! Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows - 2017, lets get it done Club!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-05-2016, 08:16 AM
A few reasons why Battle Force 2000 should have a modern era convention set honoring them:

Maverick - if you read Ace's original file card, he was an instructor at the USAF overseeing "The Aggressors," flight squadron. Maverick was one of the original Aggressors Squardron and that's why he was chosen to fly the experimental jet The Vector which became a BF2000 endorsed plane.

Blocker - a former Boston cab driver. But did you know that while dropping of a patron at a museum he witnessed a boston pd officer bleeding out from a fleeing bank robber's gun shot? Blocker knew an ambulance wouldn't arrive in time, so he packed the wound, and transported the cop the wrong way down one-way streets, avoiding causing an accident, and got him to Boston General Hospital just in time to save his life.

Blaster - what an engineer! Read his file card. He basically patented the design for hovercrafts. Cutter owes him big time. Blaster basically designed the W.H.A.L.E for the GI Joe Team.

Dodger - joined the military at age 18. Every time he's asked if he wants to re-enlist for four more years, his only response is, "am I 65 yet? No? Then why are you trying to get rid of me." He's a badass.

Avalanche - was Snow Job's #1 best performing recruit of extreme weather tactical school ever. If that wasn't enough, he was also Outback's #1 outdoor survival school recruit. Pretty high honors.

Knockdown - his specialty is taking out enemy aircraft or missiles fired at friendlies.

These are just some of the reasons we need a convention set honoring these characters!

rjhiii@sover.net
09-05-2016, 10:04 AM
So, for me I would rather get some of what I want even if it is paired with something someone else may want. To some that is known as trade fodder. I would take a BF2000 team even if it were paired with Headhunters, which is something I don't want. I think more people would prefer Red Shadow. So you ' re right you can save your money. Especially, since you only think the stuff you want should be made. So hopefully you can save your money this round and two groups of collector's can both get something they are looking forward to.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-05-2016, 10:14 AM
This thread is about promoting the possibility of Battle Force 2000 vs Red Shadows. To date, you've posted nothing in reference to that. We get you don't like this idea. Start a thread for an idea that you would spend your "hard-earned," for. You said you had never heard of the Red Shadows until you joined the club. Okay consider your GI Joe experience enriched then. Obviously you didn't take to the concept, but you still got to learn about it anyway. So +1 for you. But trying to sabotage this thread. You don't like this idea. Again, duly noted.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-05-2016, 10:37 AM
On another site it was suggested to swap out Firewall for Sparks, I don't see how that would work. Since Dee Jay and Sparks are both communications

j_yoders@hotmail.com
09-05-2016, 10:50 AM
I think there is genuine interest for BF2000, there is simply not any for Red Shadows, especially with the preponderence of original ARAH Joes and Cobras who have not gotten the ME treatment yet.

I continue to disagree that you should pay nearly $400 for a set, half of which is something most collectors have never even heard of. If that's selfish or "selfishly motivated," then sign me up.

My answer to the question "Battle Force 2000 vs. Red Shadows, anyone?" (the actual title of this thread) is a resounding pass.

funpubincadmin
09-05-2016, 11:21 AM
Please review the GIJCC Forum Guidelines: Any personal attacks and/or inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a company, person or idea will not be tolerated and is subject for removal.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-05-2016, 11:51 AM
On another site it was suggested to swap out Firewall for Sparks, I don't see how that would work. Since Dee Jay and Sparks are both communications

Yeah I agree. I have nothing against Sparks, but Dee-Jay is already the comm specialist, and to add a female character with purpose, I think Firewall is a better "handler / manager of the team. Especially after the way Mike Costa used her in the IDW Cobra book. But by all means, let's keep the ideas coming. If we get Battle Force 2000, I want it to be the best set possible. And that can only be achieved by all of us spitballing ideas.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-05-2016, 12:05 PM
Firewall is a computer tech/engineer. May Day is the character that was the leader in GI Joe Extreme. The more I look the set could have a diverse group of figures.
BF 2000 for the ARAH original run
MayDay- a figure that represents Extreme, Goes with Iron Klaw's and Steel Raven which we got from the Club, and LT. Stone which came with ROC line.
Firewall- IDW
Red Shadows- Original Action Force enemy for International Collectors, IDW, plus an update to a previous Convention set.
Set could make quite a few collectors happy.

NS550@aol.com
09-05-2016, 02:31 PM
Yes! That sounds great! The actual boxed set can comprise of just the original members and then we can see Dee-Jay, MayDay and Firewall in additional packs. I think this is a sound idea! Hopefully there's enough people interested in seeing BF 2000 or Red Shadows made that this set will get a lot of support, and for those who don't want the Red Shadows I think they could easily sell the whole group of them to people who want more troop building.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-05-2016, 05:42 PM
The only question would be vehicle molds and tooling exists. Could they reuse the previous Con offering with a different color scheme?

Rguthei1@twcny.rr.com
09-05-2016, 06:46 PM
When you think about it (2015 threw us off using IG for the enemy faction) 2017 would be just about right for a Red Shadows appearance. 2002 and 2009 were Crimson Strike Team, 2005, 2012, 2015 were Iron Grenadiers, could 2010, 2017 further establish a legitimate pattern

j_yoders@hotmail.com
09-05-2016, 07:57 PM
But 2005 and 2012 were also Oktober Guard if that's the "pattern"...

Rguthei1@twcny.rr.com
09-06-2016, 04:06 AM
AS far as the attendee items go 2005 was more Steel Brigade than OG since there was only 1 OG figure in the whole con. The entire box set was IG though

j_yoders@hotmail.com
09-06-2016, 07:08 AM
They were still represented and then 2012 brought the well-received IG vs. OG set. I'm not suggesting Oktober Guard again (all their characters have been pretty much finished up in FSS). Would rather see Cobra La or some other ARAH sub-group we haven't seen yet.

rjhiii@sover.net
09-06-2016, 09:56 AM
The problem with GI Joe Collector's (or really any collector) lies in individual taste. So some want unproduced GI Joe ARAH Marvel characters (Candy Appel/Bongo the Bear, General Flagg Jr., Mistress Amanda) , Some want unproduced Sunbow (Mara, Raven) characters, Some just want the figures in the original run 82-94 of ARAH updated (including the crazy stuff like Star Brigade and Mega Marines vs Mega Monsters), DEF vs HeadHunters etc.), some want the international figures they never had the opportunity to have as kids, some want DIC characters (Evy)not produced, some want Extreme characters updated in the Modern style, Sgt Savage, Venom vs Valor, spytroops, IDW, Devil's Due, The Adventure Team, Shattered Glass (mostly the Club I think, but still part of the fandom) etc, etc. The problem is the Club has to reach ALL OF THESE COLLECTOR's, and those unrepresented or feel under represented are not happy. With two year's left announced, you can see it building animosity of some that just want the entire Con Set and FSS to represent their preference. In the end, the Club needs to represent the most members and hope those that might be bitter about the choice decide a glass half full (half empty in their eyes) is better than to have a completely empty glass....

j_yoders@hotmail.com
09-06-2016, 10:20 AM
I will just say that some collectors calling others "bitter" because they don't follow lock-step with THEIR personal crusades is not productive.

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-06-2016, 11:49 AM
Read my latest suggestion under the poll thread.

giants5680@yahoo.com
09-06-2016, 01:18 PM
I know nothing of these two groups. But after looking into them a bit. I think if they continue what they did with Steel Raven, Gen Flagg Jr. it could be a really cool set. No more purple, Hot pink, or Neon green colors!

ATBotts78@gmail.com
09-07-2016, 03:16 PM
Yeah Battle Force was never neon or pink and purple. And Red Shadows aren't / wouldn't be either so you are safe there in your request Big Blue. The Black Major's file card is especially interesting. Had a long lasting Alias as John Shepherd working for the good guys. Baron Ironblood was ferocious in the Action Force comics before the decision to phase out the group and turn them into Cobra so both the US and foreign protagonists were fighting the same enemy for marketing reasons.

And the Battle Force 2000 guys are a good subgroup, just never reaching their potential in the comics, but Blocker and Dodger looked great as figures and Maverick and Avalanche had impressive resumes on their filecards.

A convention set of these groups would be fantastic